Do you agree that the Democratic Primary system is flawed in regards to how it deals with the Popular Vote?

Yes   9 votes - 81 %
No   2 votes - 18 %
 
11 Total Votes
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The primary doesn't (2.00 / 2)

deal with the popular vote and this whole meme is stupid.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:49:24 PM EST

But the public perception does (2.00 / 1)

I was in Europe on the night of the 2000 vote.  As it became clear that who actually won the most votes would be something hard to define - and moreover that the person who won fewer might actually win - it spawned endless defensive explanations from me along the lines of "we really do care about democracy, it's just a funny artifact of the system at the moment."

It didn't look good.

And while Obama will (vastly likely) be the nominee, the way we count is so screwed up that there will be no demonstrable resolution to the issue.

As I wrote what was initially a comment on Jerome's diary, the full picture of the current efforts to define the race by popular votes sank in.  The more those among the voting Democratic publis - and it's leaders - argue the Popular Vote the more clearly it will add fuel to the fire stoked against us leading up to the GE.

It won't kill us - the Republican party is in utter disarray and couldn't win a spitting match at the moment - but it is a flaw we need to work out so it doesn't come up again.

-chris


"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer
by chrisblask on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is in the general election (2.00 / 2)

where the votes can be counted.  You simply cannot accurately count them in any primary due to the caucasus, so this argument doesn't really hold water.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:28:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That is in the general election (2.00 / 1)

It's never come up before as an issue, but we have never had (to my knowledge) the subject pushed adamantly by one of the Democratic contenders before.  Certainly not against the backdop of the now-infamous 2000 GE.

There seems no end in sight to this being made Issue #1 for a large part of the Democratic party.

It could become a lingering sore after the nomination process is finally over.  Particularly if it's somehow taken all the way to Denver.

-chris


"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer
by chrisblask on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That is in the general election (none / 0)

I hope you're not complaining about Republicans voting for a candidate. Without them Clinton might not have won Texas.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:23:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you disputing the nebulosity of the numbers? (none / 0)


My point is not to pick a fight that is already raging, but to point to the unavoidable fuzziness of the math behind the whole debate.

Do you believe that the numbers can be put down in any way that is not open to debate?

-chris


"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer
by chrisblask on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The pop vote isn't the measure and it shouldn't be (2.00 / 0)

Candidates shouldn't camp out in CA and TX and ignore smaller states but they would if the pop vote was the measure. Then people would be really pissed around the nation about being ignored.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 17, 2008 at 12:57:31 PM EST

Re: riiiiight (none / 0)

We should follow the rules. If the rules were different then  they would have campaigned differently.

The supers aren't rubes and they know the rules and the game. It's too bad so many others seem to be clueless.  


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:22:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 0)

They will count the delegates for both MI and FL, but it won't reflect the vote exactly in MI and no one else is going to either. This is a paper tiger. Who even knows how she's going to do in Puerto Rico? There hasn't been any polling, and don't assume because she does well with latinos in the US she's going to take PR by storm. it is an entirely different kettle of fish.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:26:44 PM EST

Yep (2.00 / 0)

The outcome of the actuall nomination is all-but foregone, and we'll see where the popular vote ends up - inasmuch as it is possible to "end up" in any vaguely agreeable form.

There is a lot of contention being generated for an irresovable non-issue.  It can't possibly help the party, and it is capable of doing some damage.

I am not quite confident enough in the ability of the Republicans to completely blow Nov while the Dems completely nail it.  This is just one of those outlier issues that could come back to have an impact against us.

-chris


"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things." Admiral Grace Hopper, computer pioneer
by chrisblask on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

What evidence do you have that shows FL & MI will count as is? In other words, what evidence do you have that the DNC will allow the rule violators to get off without a penalty?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Popular vote is a way to Discount Caucus States (none / 0)

Not very clever either.


McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Sat May 17, 2008 at 01:53:42 PM EST

Re: caucuses are a way to discount voters. (none / 0)

Too late to change the rules now.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Sat May 17, 2008 at 02:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Discounting caucuses are a way to discount voters. (none / 0)

in a number of States.


McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Sat May 17, 2008 at 05:15:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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